lifeaftr | [closed] i guess the truth is that the truth is of complex design

Who: Ginko and Epsilon
What: They had to talk about what happened on Nastrandir at some point.
When: September 21
Where: In the woods of Enso
Warnings: discussion of prior injury, also current injury, also the impact of the emotion of hate on robot brains

Ginko isn’t sure, at this rate, how long it’s going to be before he’s comfortable living outside the clinic again - but he can at least feel alright about leaving long enough to talk to Epsilon.

It’s a good thing, too, because he suspects this isn’t going to be the kind of conversation either of them would be comfortable having somewhere as public as the clinic, or even at the cottage they share with Ed. So he makes sure his burns are freshly dressed and makes his way to their agreed-upon meeting place, a part of the Enso woods relatively unaffected by Ahidalga’s offspring, where Epsilon will have ample warning if anyone else approaches them - and won’t have to stand among too many of his scorched brethren.

Speaking of which, he’s sure Epsilon already knows when he’s arriving - but he’d still rather not stay silent as he approaches. “Hey. How’re you doing?”

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The instant Epsilon sees Ginko thinking about trying to climb in his condition, he frowns and lifts himself off the branch he's seated on with his vines, lowering himself to the ground and alighting gently in the dirt.

"I'd wondered whether the mana pools' power would affect anything--fog aside--but I am no less capable of harm than I was before."

It's delivered matter-of-factly for such a sombre sentence.

"It's not a surprise, but if it's not preventable, it should be precautioned for."

Well, he guesses that solves that - though he does have to wonder if Epsilon might be trying to keep him out of the tree. Hmm.

...He also has to wonder whether they would be better off if the pools had sapped their powers, as well as their hunger. Maybe that would make Ginko even less effective at... anything than he has been, but at least it would put them all at less risk of hurting those around them.

"What kind of precautions were you thinking of?"

"I'm not sure," Epsilon admitted, after a deliberate pause. "That's why I'm out here." Another, equally deliberate pause.

"That, and my extremely flammable nature." He does have it in him to add a moment's levity, mostly for Ginko's sake... even if it's dry. A joke about kindling or tinder could go there, were he feeling especially inclined... but the topic itself is quite serious.

"I've been thinking about that, too. That one I believe can be solved, but... I'm hesitant. Truthfully, I think making me more difficult to fight is a bad idea." He finishes his thought and regards Ginko evenly.

Ginko raises his eyebrows slightly, because he supposes he doesn't have room to actually object to Epsilon joking about his own flammability.

Besides which, yeah, it... is a topic that needs to be addressed. He tilts his head and lifts an ear slightly, in what might be the most expressive gesture he's allowed himself since the conversation started. "Well... maybe think of it this way. How often have you felt that you're in danger from fire here, and how often do you feel that you've been a danger to others?"

Epsilon doesn't actually need to think about that question, and answers so promptly he very nearly overlaps Ginko's words. Nearly, but not quite. Impeccable timing.

"Fire, but only by a factor of one... and one of which was caused by being a tangible threat to others." His brows come together, a slow but serious frown.

"What would have happened had I not been defeated so easily?"

There's... something of a discrepancy, Ginko realizes, between incidents he'd known Epsilon had been subjected to here and how many incidents he just indicated happened. One more encounter with fire over instances of being dangerous to others, and then the implication that there's been more than one of the latter means one more of each than Ginko had known about. Which is, to say the least, kind of worrying.

Concern flickers over Ginko's face as he goes over that in his head, and reminds himself not to pry - he's proven enough lately that he can't really be trusted to hold conversations, so if he's going to try... better safe than sorry.

But, in this instance, there isn't really a way to answer without at least skirting around that issue. "...I wouldn't know for sure." He can only assume that, whenever this happened, he wasn't there for it; he's got no idea where it was, and can only guess that none of the many very powerful people on the archipelago were around, given how worried Epsilon sounds about it.

"I am afraid... that I do know." Epsilon pauses deliberately, and he holds it, holds Ginko's gaze, holds the silence in a way that could be a held breath, were he any form of life that needed to truly breathe.

"It's happened before. Remember, with Ed? I don't want to continue the cycle of violence." He drops his gaze, staring down at soil he has not yet sunk roots into.

"There are no isolated events." His brows come together again, pensive and perturbed.

"But nor may there be a straightforward physical solution." The slight emphasis on 'physical' is where his uncertainty lies. Making himself easier to kill is not a real solution. It's just damage control, but controlled damage is not a lack of it.

Ginko nods slightly, his brow creasing. In a way, that incident with Ed has been an ever-present ghost over this conversation, the first instance Ginko knows of of Epsilon's emotional affliction rearing its head, and still possibly the most prominent - the worst-case scenario, honestly.

But, as fixes go, Ginko has got to agree on a few levels that being ready to kill Epsilon at any time isn't a great one. On top of his own distaste for the idea, Epsilon is right; a physical solution may not be the most effective option.

"I've got to agree. Maybe I'm biased, but there has to be a better way to guard against this than by keeping yourself in constant danger." Any more than they're already all in constant danger, anyway.

"It might be a start if more people knew this was a risk, but... I can also certainly see why you might be reluctant to spread that information around."

"Hmm. I'm not reluctant so much as I am anticipating a certain amount of pushback." Deliberate self-termination is a choice but it's not one Epsilon is programmed to consider in any but the most extreme circumstances. This isn't really one of those times. The threat is in the ability for any situation to could become that.

"... it's funny, I'm capable of so much less harm than I ever was back on my Earth, but also so much more."

"Right." Ginko can't recall running into much trouble from telling people about his own aggression problems, or even warning them about the return of his and Ed's hunger - but that's no guarantee of anything. Only so many people even know about the former, after all... and the particular topic of hate could easily raise more of a reaction than simple aggression, or even a supernatural "hunger".

His tail pulls over the ground to wind around his foot, without Ginko even really noticing. "...How so?"

Maybe it's a stupid question. But he'd rather not risk making a comment without knowing what he's saying.

Epsilon pauses, just one beat of silence, purposefully inserted to contextualise the words that come out his mouth directly after.

"The pushback or the harm done?"

Hopefully he doesn't need to explain the idea that people don't want to entertain the potential for threats from within, but better to ask now than need to explain later.

"The latter." Yeah, he at least got that first part. "What did you mean, about doing more harm here?"

From what he gathers, Epsilon's abilities here aren't quite so devastating as those he once had could be.

[closed] i guess the truth is that the truth is of complex design

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